God, what happens when You return?

Well, good morning. It’s good to see all of you joining us in person, all of you that are guests this morning for the baptisms, those of you that are streaming in online or watching later on demand, and of course, our friends that are streaming in at First Lutheran in Algonac. We’re so glad that you’re here.

My name’s Tim, and if Ben or Eric or I haven’t had a chance to meet you and you’re in person, right after the service, we’ll be in the middle of our West Lobby. We would love if you would just come up and introduce yourself, and it gives us an opportunity to thank you for being here and just learning a little bit more about what led you here today. But once again, we’re so glad that you’re here.

We’re actually concluding a series of messages today. Can you believe it? We made it all the way to the last Sunday of October. We did it, folks.

You don’t seem very excited that you’re still alive. Maybe you’re just ready to go see Jesus. Is that what it is? All right, good, we’ll get into that more.

But here’s where we’ve been the last several weeks. We’ve been looking at some pretty tough topics, and the way that we designed the sermon series is to ask God the question, and then to open our Bibles and look at the pages of Scripture and then let God answer them for us. And so if you go all the way down to week six and seven, they kind of coincide, they kind of go together, God, when are you coming back? And then today what we’re going to look at is what actually happens when you return? Because most people, if you’ve been raised in the church, if you have any semblance to Christianity, you’ve probably heard of this idea of a second coming, that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God the Father, and that one day, we don’t know when, because the Bible doesn’t tell us when, but one day He’s going to come back, and then what? Anybody know? Do we lose our houses? Are we still married? Whoa, that was a… Do we know who we are? What do we do? I mean, eternity is a really long time, isn’t it? Do you ever just wonder what we’re going to do in eternity? Well, our Scripture in all of this, our key Scripture has been found in 2 Timothy, where it tells us all Scripture is breathed out by God.

And someone asked me, why is it that you have a key verse like this throughout this series? It’s so that you know there’s certain Scriptures that we’ve been looking at where Jesus is specifically teaching. So, Jesus is telling us what it is that we should know and what we should believe, but we also equally believe all of Scripture is breathed out by God, and it’s useful for us. It teaches us, and it trains us, but it also corrects and rebukes us.

And sometimes, believe it or not, things seep into the church, different views, things that we may add to Scripture or add to God’s Word because some things in Scripture make us uncomfortable. And so, this is our way of saying, okay, no, no, no, we’re going to go back to the Word of God, we’re going to read what His Word says, and we’re going to allow Him then to dictate what it is that we believe, teach, and confess. Amen? So, this is where we left off last week, is that God did say, well, Jesus is coming back, and He’s in heaven now, He’s going to come down from heaven, there’s going to be this loud command, there’s going to be some angels, there’s even going to be a trumpet, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

What does that mean? Well, all of those that have already gone on before us, those who have passed away, whether you’re cremated or whether you’re in a coffin in the ground, believe it or not, that is not a permanent resting place, that is just a temporary resting place. Because when Jesus comes back, all the tombs of the believers are going to bust open wide, and the remains of our loved ones will be brought up into the sky, into the clouds, and be reunited with their souls, and God, in that moment, in a twinkling of an eye, is going to produce a new eternal body for the believers. That’s crazy, isn’t it? Isn’t that just hard to wrap your mind around? Anybody go like, wow, that’s nuts.

That’s really crazy that He’s going to do that. But that’s what the Scriptures say. Now, here’s the thing, those of us that are still alive, if Jesus comes back while we’re still alive, and we pray for that, because it’d be nice if we didn’t have to die, we’re going to be caught up together with them in the clouds.

What does this mean? We get to see our loved ones, we get to see all of those that have gone on before, in the sky, in the clouds, with Jesus, and then here’s what’s so important, we will be with God forever and ever and ever and ever. And somehow, this is one of these doctrines of the churches that we’ve screwed up. Did you know that? Somehow, throughout the last 2,000 years, we have made it to where people are supposed to fear the coming of God.

Why? Why did we do that? You better watch out, you better do this, you better do that, or if you’re not this, this, or this, then you’re not going to be ready. And for whatever reason, if you go back and you look at the Scriptures, these Scriptures are so encouraging, they’re so uplifting for the believer to lean into these In fact, the way that he ends this verse, I love this, this is what he says, he says, Therefore you are to encourage one another with these words. You’re not to scold one another, you’re not to like beat each other over the head or make this a fear thing, you are to encourage one another.

So I want you right now to turn to your neighbor and say, with a huge smile on your face, Jesus is coming back. And then turn to your other neighbor and say, get pumped, get excited. This is a great, this is a good thing.

Wouldn’t it be awesome if he just came back before the end of this worship service? Wouldn’t that just be absolutely incredible? Here we are gathered as his church, and all of a sudden, boom, we’re instantly in the sky. Now, sometimes people ask, what if I have a fear of heights? Right? The beautiful part is, Jesus takes away all your fear in that moment, and you’re going to be so overwhelmed by seeing Jesus face to face, nothing else will matter. And believe it or not, we actually declared this at the beginning of our service.

And you may have missed it. You may have glossed over it, because sometimes we say these things, and we say them so quickly that we don’t fully comprehend what it is that we are, in fact, declaring. In that third article, which is the third part of the Apostles’ Creed, we said together as a church that we believe in the Holy Spirit, we believe in the Holy Christian Church, we believe in the community of saints, we believe in the forgiveness of sins, and then here it is for us today, this sermon, we believe in the resurrection of the body.

When you say those words, you are saying that you believe that all of those that have gone on before, their bodies will be resurrected, that there is a life everlasting, which is unending joy and peace with God. And then we say this word, Amen. Very churchy word.

And the reason we say it is because we say, God, we know this to be true, and we can’t wait until we get to watch with our own eyes all of this unfold. Do you want another way to be encouraged this morning? Do you want another way to be just, some of you maybe you’re dealing with just the heaviness of life, and you’re just constantly in this state of fear or doubt or depression or whatever it may be. This is the greatest playlist that you could ever create when it comes to this topic.

Are you ready for it? Get out your phones and take a picture and tell AI to make this your playlist this week. How many of you recognize some of these songs? These are some of the old songs that we would sing in church on this very topic, that soon and very soon, we are gonna what? We are going to see the King. There’s no more crying there, because we’re gonna see the King.

Soon and very soon. Jesus, we cannot wait for you to come back. How about this one, The Saints Go Marching In.

Isn’t that a cool song? Or how about I’ll Fly Away? Wait a second, we get to fly? Yes, you instantly get transported from earth into the clouds. I mean, how cool is that? Or what a day that’ll be when Christ Jesus I shall see, when I look upon His face and see the glory of God manifold before us. I think even now, one of the most popular songs that we often have requested at funerals is, I Can Only Imagine.

Because really, we can only imagine the majesty and just how beautiful that moment will be. And here’s my encouragement to you. This is what so often happens when we get sucked into the things of this world and we get so fixated on everything that’s around us and the concerns that we have that we forget about what is it that actually awaits us.

And so that’s what we’re gonna dig into more this morning. God, what actually happens when you return? Last week we were in Matthew 24, and so we’re just gonna continue with the teaching of Jesus right into Matthew 25. And Jesus says this, when the Son of Man comes in glory and all the angels with Him, He’s bringing them with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne and all the nations will be gathered before Him.

Man, what a beautiful picture that is. But here’s the reality of what will take place. The scripture goes on to say this, He will separate the people one from another as shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. The King will say to those on His right, Come, you who are blessed by My Father, take your inheritance. This is what I have done for you.

The kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. I knew that all of these things would unfold and everything is gonna happen in My perfect time according to My perfect plan. This is the kingdom that has been prepared for you.

For I was hungry, you gave Me something to eat. I was thirsty, you gave Me something to drink. I was a stranger, you invited Me in.

I needed clothes, you clothed Me. I was sick and you looked after Me. I was in prison and you came to visit Me.

What is He saying here? Is that at the heart of the believer is a reflection of who God is. And as we see God, we see it in the person and work of Jesus who came not to be served, but to serve. And for those of us with faith in Jesus, we serve those in our community.

We love those in our community. And people were asking, What does this mean? Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger or needing clothes or when you were in sick or in prison? And the King will reply, Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of Mine, you did for Me. Every time we live lives of sacrifice, where we’re out serving others, we’re sharing the gospel and we realize that our primary purpose for being here on earth is for more and more people to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus.

It’s so more and more people can bring their family members to the waters of baptism and watch God as He works. It’s for us to come together and to encourage one another. To remind each other that this life is temporary and it’s short and there’s an eternity that waits for us.

But He didn’t stop there. There’s another side to this whole thing because He will say to those on His left, Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. And this is the part that makes us uncomfortable.

This is the part that we don’t like. This is the part that often we struggle with. Because for whatever reason there are going to be people that harden their hearts to God.

Who matter what God does, they want nothing to do with Him and reject Him and walk away from that inheritance, that free gift of grace that He offers us. And what’s important in this verse which you have to realize as you see these words in bold, who is hell prepared for? The devil and the fallen angels. God doesn’t want anyone to go to hell.

God doesn’t want anyone to spend eternity apart from Him. But if people choose to continue to reject Him over and over and over again and say they want nothing to do with Him, then that’s exactly what is going to happen. And he goes through and he gives the opposite of what he just said.

I was hungry, you gave me nothing. I was thirsty, you gave me nothing. I was needing clothes and you didn’t provide them for me.

And again they ask, when did we see you in these situations? And He will reply the opposite. Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. And they will go away to eternal punishment.

But the righteous to eternal life. Sheep and goats. These are Jesus’ words for you and for me.

How important it is to be connected to the vine, to know who God is. That as sheep there is a physical and spiritual communion with God for all eternity. And we can look forward to that day.

We can celebrate that day that is coming closer and closer each and every moment of our lives. We can encourage each other with those words. We can also understand that there’s going to be a physical and spiritual separation from God for all eternity for those who refuse to put their faith in Him.

And that’s why we have work to do. That’s why we continue to pray for our neighbors and our co-workers and our family members and our friends who don’t know the hope they can have in Jesus. And oh by the way, this has nothing to do with earning your salvation or working your way toward God or earning God’s favor.

Even going out and serving the poor or doing all the things that Jesus just listed. If you go back to that verse and you look at one of the key words in that whole thing is that it’s an inheritance that God gives you. God is the one that comes to you and gives you faith.

God is the one that gives you this precious gift that you would have faith in your heart and your life and as He’s redeemed you, as He calls you His own, then now you go out and you respond out of what it is that He has done for you. And yet there’s people that will reject that inheritance. There are people that will reject that gift and say, you know what? I’ve done pretty well on this earth.

I’ve created a name for myself. I’ve worked hard. Maybe it’s education.

Maybe it’s finances. I’ve built this house. I’ve built this family.

Look at all of the wonderful things that I’ve done in my life without God. And yet we know the reality is that life is so temporary on this earth. And we invest a lot of time and money in ourselves.

Don’t we? Do you ever think about how much this skin costs? Ladies in the room, do you ever think about how much you spend on making yourself beautiful? And you’re all beautiful by the way. Do you ever think about how much we spend on hair products? I know you can’t tell, but I mean, I’m now using beef tallow on my face. I don’t even know if it does anything.

It’s just a new popular thing to have. All the things that we do and what we eat and what we wear and these images that we try to create and even the worlds that we try to have. And yet Jesus comes along in His grace and His mercy and said, yes, I love you and I can see you and I want you to have life and life to the full on earth.

But more importantly, I want you to have life and life to the full in view of who I am in the eternity that awaits you. And in this topic in particular, a lot of people will ask, well, if Jesus returns and I’m not ready or my loved one’s not ready, will they be left behind? And this whole idea has actually become popular in just the last couple of hundred years of the church in the 1800s, this whole idea of being left behind. There’s movies out about it, there’s books out about it.

Some of you, you know, Kirk Cameron, he was in a whole movie series about this whole idea. And what it comes back to is kind of what people’s view of the end times is. And I’m about to show you four basic views of the end time and they’re really huge words because people in the church sometimes just like to create big fancy words, okay? And so you have these four time views.

It’s dispensational premillennialism, historic premillennialism, postmillennialism and amillennialism. If you weren’t asleep, you’re asleep now, right? Alright, wake up. Do you know which one of these four you believe? Do you know which one of these four our church believes? Someone said number two, anybody else want to guess? This is why I said last week we don’t talk about this stuff enough and that’s on me.

In fact, I think the last time we talked about this was five years ago. And somehow we’ve got to figure out how to talk about it more because these are these ideas that tend to seep into the church. Dispensational premillennialism actually believes in a rapture, that there’s going to be a secret rapture, that Jesus is going to come back and anybody that’s a Christian, he’s going to take and they’re into heaven with him and then people are going to be wandering around wondering, okay where did the people go that were believers? And there’s going to be this idea that you have a second chance.

That you’ve been left behind from the first rapture and so you have this second chance now to get right with God and then the second time Jesus comes back, those that have put their faith in him at that second opportunity now will also be in heaven. And even though this sounds nice and even though we would wish this to be true, it’s actually not what the Bible teaches. This isn’t actually what’s in scripture and if you start digging into other religions, it’s kind of fascinating because every other religion on the planet believes in some form of hell and that people wouldn’t actually go to hell and if you end up in hell, that through a series of events that you can actually work your way out of hell and into heaven.

Christianity is the only religion, believe it or not, that when Jesus comes back it is over. It is done. We actually here as a church believe in what’s called amillennialism.

That when Jesus comes back and with the scripture that we just read in 1 Thessalonians that when he’s in the sky and those that are loved ones their remains are in the clouds, their soul is reunited with their physical body that is it. It is over. And he will separate those who believe from those who don’t believe.

That’s what we believe as a church. That’s what we believe that the Bible teaches and what Jesus is very clear about in scripture. And so that’s why as we looked at last week, we need to watch out, we need to be ready, we need to continue to be people that depopulate hell, that share the gospel so that more and more people come to know Jesus before that day in history comes.

Now, not only is that a reality for us, the Bible also tells us there’s going to be a new heaven and a new earth and one of Jesus’ disciples John, he actually is the one that gets this prophecy from God and he writes the book of Revelation and he says these words, he says, I saw a new heaven and a new earth. And you’ll see that those words are in quotes because we’re going to get to that in a moment. For the first heaven and the first earth have passed away.

I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, look God’s dwelling place is now among the people and he will dwell with them. This is the best part of the whole thing. And often times people think, well, you know when I die I’m going to go to heaven and then we’ll be with God in heaven for all eternity.

Well, only part of that is actually true. We’re going to get into that in a second. It says they will be his people and God himself will be with them and be their God.

What John is quoting in this is Isaiah. It’s an Old Testament passage where Isaiah says these words. He’s prophesying them hundreds and hundreds of years before this took place.

See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered nor will they come to mind. And people will often ask, well, will I remember certain things about earth? Will I remember my loved ones? Will I remember who’s this or that? Or what about those that I know in my family that just refuse God and they don’t have faith? Will I spend the rest of eternity just mourning and sad about those things? And this scripture tells us that the former things are not going to be remembered.

That in order for us to be in perfect peace where there is no sorrow, there is no more sorrow, there is no more pain, that God in his infinite wisdom and grace somehow in our new glorified bodies and with our new glorified minds sorts that all out for us. And so again, the burden now is on us to continue with those who are alive, who have walked this earth with us, who don’t know Jesus, to help them come to the incredible knowledge of who Jesus is and the free gift of grace that he offers them. In fact, he puts it this way, he will wipe every tear from their eyes.

There will be no more death, amen, or mourning or crying or pain. The old order of things will pass away. And here Jesus who’s sitting on the throne says to us, I’m going to make everything new.

Everything is going to be brand new. This is exciting. I think we’re actually going to see new animals.

Did you know that? Some of you, you’re obsessed with your cats and your dogs. And you’ve asked me and the other pastors, is Fluffy going to be with me in heaven? I have no idea. I just think there’s going to be so many new animals and so many new colors and so many new things that we are going to experience.

Our human minds can’t even comprehend because he’s going to make everything new. Again, this day is going to come like a thief. The heavens are going to disappear with a roar.

The elements of this earth are going to be destroyed by fire and everything that is on this earth will be laid bare. This is important because, again, we spend a lot of time and money and energy not only on our physical self and what we do with our bodies externally and internally. We spend a lot of time on the things that we own.

Like, how many of you you’re into landscaping? Like, that’s your jam. That’s your thing. And you love having perfectly mowed lines in your yard.

Anybody else out there? And you will get down on your hands and your knees and you will pick every single weed out of your yard and you will plant little seedlings so that your grass is absolutely perfect. Anybody like that? And then you will go on a walk and you will judge your neighbors who do not have a beautiful lawn like you do. And you will scratch your head and you will say, why aren’t they as obsessed with their lawn as I am obsessed with my lawn? Now, is there anything wrong with wanting a beautiful lawn? No.

Is there anything wrong with wanting a beautiful house or decorating it or you know, some of you, you have such an incredible gift for interior decorating and design. None of those things are wrong in and of themselves. Here’s what you have to keep in mind.

Everything that we try to do with this earth, no matter what we build, the monuments we create, whatever we think would ever be permanent, all of it is going to be destroyed in a fire. No amens on that one. And so if you have multiple houses or God has gifted you and you have a house and a cottage or now all of a sudden you have a boat or you know, we have a camper that we keep up north.

Everything that we have, the more that you accumulate, do you realize all that is is you’re just giving God more kindling? That’s all that is. There is absolutely nothing you can build on this earth that won’t eventually be 100% destroyed. And yet, God is going to make everything new.

And it says this, since everything is going to be destroyed, keep that in mind. No matter who builds it, even these people that have all this money and we all follow the billionaires and all the houses they buy and the boats and the yachts and all of that stuff, all that stuff is getting destroyed. If everything is going to be destroyed, what kind of people should we ought to be? What do you think? What should we do? Live holy and godly lives.

Not because of anything that we can do, but because of the power of the Holy Spirit that’s working in and through us to then go out and to share the love of Jesus with others. I love this. Live our lives in view of who God is, not what we’re trying to build with our time on this earth.

Look forward to the day of God. And speed, it’s coming. I like that.

I’m not sure how we’re supposed to speed that up other than sending more and more missionaries out to the mission field to the tribes and nations that haven’t heard the gospel. We are looking forward. This is Peter.

Peter, the head of the disciples. We’re looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where righteousness dwells. No more sorrow.

No more sickness. No more pain. Amen? Get excited about that.

That day that we will spend eternity with Jesus. Not something to fear, but something to rejoice and look forward to. This will be our new reality, folks.

This world will be cleansed by fire and transformed into a new earth. And what a lot of people don’t realize is when Jesus comes back and he purifies the earth, he actually takes all of the believers and puts them back on planet earth. The earth that you’re on right now is the earth that you will spend eternity on.

It’s not in heaven. He creates a new heaven and a new earth and we actually spend eternity on earth. But here, don’t miss this, we spend eternity with God.

We will be in the presence of Jesus for all of eternity. We can’t even fathom what that day will be and what that will look like. Praise be to God, we will not have to deal with sin and suffering and death anymore.

And aren’t you excited that we won’t have to spend any more money on our physical bodies? That we will have resurrected new bodies designed by God. Amen! You see, just yesterday my wife and I were called to the home of my wife’s aunt, who’s been on hospice the last several weeks. And obviously when they know that the time’s drawing near, which is usually the hospice nurses, which God bless them in the ministry that they do, kind of give that indication to the family.

And so we were called to her home and everyone was there. We were all taking turns saying our goodbyes as we knew the moment was coming closer and closer. And they are from a Catholic church and they’d already had the Catholic priest there and he had given her last rites and had prayed over her and so thanks be to God because we all are on team Jesus and we all believe in the same Jesus.

And as we were getting ready to leave her husband said, hey, would you also say a prayer? Which I’m always honored when anybody asks me to do a prayer. Especially in those moments. One of the things that I love to do is read a scripture, explain the scripture a little bit, but then also to have the family come close and to grab hands and to form a circle around their loved one.

And to give anybody else an opportunity that wants to say a prayer. Often times people are just so overcome with emotion they’re like, no, you’re the pastor, we’re good, you just go ahead and do the prayer. But in the circle yesterday with Lisa’s family, her sister was actually the first one that said, well, I’ll pray.

I said, great, and if anybody else wants to jump in after she’s done praying that’ll be great and then I’ll close our time with prayer and we’ll say the Lord’s Prayer. Knowing that your aunt, your loved one right here, is moments away from seeing Jesus face to face. And Lisa’s sister prayed this beautiful prayer.

I mean, I was like, wow, that is, I don’t even know what to say after that. And when her sister got done praying, Lisa prayed. And what was so cool about the prayer is they began to pray and they began to also talk about their childhood and the memories that they had with their aunt.

And that was just coming out of them. And remember this, and remember that, and remember when she would make this, and remember when she would do this, and remember how she opened up her home for this thing and that thing. And then my wife and her sister, her mom prayed.

And all of a sudden, all of the family just broke into just sharing stories about their loved one. And I just can’t help but think, could she hear all of these incredible things that were being said about her in her last moments on this earth? Tears streaming down their faces. Together as we said the Lord’s prayer and left, and then a few hours later, finding out that Jesus had taken her by the hand and ushered her into His presence for all eternity.

But the reality in that moment is being able to look at this dear sister of the Lord, knowing she has faith in Jesus and not having to say goodbye. But to be able to say, see you later. That we will see you again in glory with Jesus.

Amen? And that is the hope that we hold onto. That’s what we continue to cling to as people and children of God, knowing and trusting He has our eternity in the palm of His hand. Amen? Will you bow your heads and close your eyes with me this morning.

Heavenly Father, we thank You, once again, for the opportunity to gather as Your church, to open Your Word and to be reminded of who You are and what it is that You have done for each and every one of us through Your Son, Jesus Christ. God, we know eternity hangs in the balance for all of us, whether we’re here in person or we’re watching online. God, we pause in this moment, if there’s anyone that is here within the sound of my voice that doesn’t know You or that is far from You, that God, You don’t have them here today on accident.

You have them here so that they would hear this Word and they would know just how much they’re loved by You. God, there’s nothing that we could do to earn or deserve salvation, this gift that You give us, this inheritance that You place within our hands. And so God, now would You speak to their hearts and God, as You open their hearts that they receive the faith that You are in fact giving them in the assurance of eternal life in You.

God, I pray for us as a church that we would keep the mission, the mission, that we would continue to focus on those in our lives, in our families, in our communities that don’t yet know You as their Lord and Savior. That God, we would be people that are focused on the eternal and not the temporary. That we would spend our time and our resources on the things of God and building the kingdom of God, knowing that the day that You’re coming back is drawing closer and closer.

And God, finally this morning we pray that You would fill our hearts with joy as we trust You, as we await that day, that grand reunion that we will have with You in the sky. And then God, as You create a new earth that we will dwell in for all eternity. God, an earth we can’t even fathom or imagine.

But God, we look forward to that day. So thank You for loving us. Thank You for forgiving us.

Thank You for all of the many blessings that You have in fact given us each and every day. We love You. We thank You.

We pray all these things in Your most holy and precious name. Amen. At this time, the ushers are coming forward.

We’re going to be receiving our offering this morning. And I want to thank you, those of you that partner with us each and every week. Because of your sacrifice, your financial sacrifice, you give us the ability to do not just Sunday mornings, but all of the incredible ministries that we have going on all throughout Shepherds Gate, including this last week as so many people were down at Trinity and Warren and preparing that facility for the homeless that are going to be housed there this winter.

So can we just give God praise for all the volunteers that spent last week doing that? Because of your generosity, we were able to do those things and pay to have those updates made to that building. But today we have a special video presentation for you because a few weeks ago, we actually sent a team of people from Shepherds Gate over to Africa. They spent several hours and days on their trip there.

And we are just so humbled and amazed that we were able to do this. And I want you to know, because of your generosity, we were able to help fund them. Every person that’s a member of Shepherds Gate actually has 20% of their trip funded by the church.

And so this is us going into the world and spreading the gospel. And so I want you to hear from a couple of the members of the team firsthand all that God did in and through them. So let’s watch this together.

Hi, my name’s Kim Mankiewicz. I’m a teacher at Oxford High School, and my husband and I attend a 9 o’clock service with our son, Henry. I’m David Carter.

I’ve been a member here at Shepherds Gate for about 20 years. Was very excited about the opportunity to go on the 2025 Keep Hope Missions trip. Several people.